Features
SA Bassists – An Interview with Ashley Kelly by Martin Simpson
Ashley Kelly is one of those bassists that has been around for a long time and has lots of information to share with others. I spoke to Ashley earlier this year about an interview and we finally got something happening during September. Here’s what Ashley told me.
How did you get started Ashley?
I was at Art School in Johannesburg in the early sixties and a friend of mine, who had once played with the Mickey Most band, was involved in an outfit that had no bass player. One thing led to another and I started playing bass. It didn’t take long for me to realize that this was a far bigger task than I had visualised and that I needed a teacher. I found a marvellous guitar teacher by the name of Gilbert Stroud, who really became a mentor to me, and soon talked me into learning guitar as well. This was the best thing I could have ever done as it immediately broadened my whole perspective as to what a bass player needed to know and do in a band. As I took in all this knowledge Gilbert started encouraging me to listen to jazzy type stuff, another great thing he did for me! I started playing with his dance band alternating on guitar and bass and had soon developed a huge appetite for the standards. Don’t think I was not listening and playing all the rock stuff as well, I was, but deep down I preferred standards over pop music.
Who were your earliest influences on Bass?
The first guy I ever listened to was Jet Harris in the Shadows, ‘just had to learn the bass solo for Nivram’. I was torn between rock players and guys playing jazz and as much as my age was dictating to be honed in on the rock scene I was out buying Oscar Petersen and Barney Kessel and as much jazz as I could get my hands on. When McCartney came on the scene, I loved his playing along with all the other rock cats around (I’m really not big on names). The first time I heard Blood Sweat and Tears I freaked, I just loved the style of Jim Fielder and Chicago’s bass player as well. I locked in on that style of playing and got a lot of mileage out of the boogaloo groove. Round about this time I had started messing with upright and of course was into Ray Brown and was mesmerized by Scott Lafaro followed by Eddie Gomez and many more great upright players. On the jazz fusion side there were some really hot players; Patitucci is a really great player, as is Stan Clarke. One day a friend of mine said ‘have you heard the cat that’s replaced Miroslav in Weather Report?’ I just could not stop listening to Jaco and believe that still to this day there is nobody that can improve on Jaco; bass players knew that this was where the line was drawn in the sand! There are some outrageous players out there today (I’m really not going to reel off a string of names to impress the readers) the guys who listen know who they are, but for me the standard that was set by Jaco has not been overtaken and lets leave it at that.
How were things in those days as compared to today?
I have a young son-in-law Neil Engel, who is an excellent trumpet player and the scene he’s involved in today is much the same as back in the late sixties and seventies. I believe that the work and practise you put in will determine your work load. With the arrival of the digital age everything changed, studio wise, live playing, just about every genre changed, it put a lot of players out of work. Back then (sixty’s and seventies) all the pro players were in clubs six nights a week and chasing down studio gigs in the day. Sadly in South Africa it was one sided, the political system favoured white players only, so one couldn’t really get a good yard stick impression had it been open to all players across the colour spectrum. It has gone the other way now that the political scene has changed, but by and large we are getting to a good overall representation of all players doing the work. Pity it was not open back then, South African music would have had a unique sound today.
Do you play both electric and upright?
These days I only play electric but have played upright over the years, I still believe the upright is the perfect bass sound. When one is out gigging, moving an upright around is a pain, its easier playing electric. I want to get hold of a good upright again for just keeping my chops up….nothing works the chops like upright bass. I play a Sixty Four Fender jazz bass (L series) and after shopping and changing over the years always come back to Fender and wonder why the heck I bothered with all the rest. I’m also playing an Italian bass, a Manne, and love it. It is a five string and has a wonderful neck, one of the best necks I’ve ever played on a five string bass. I’m not big into amps and generally use what ever is available on a gig or take a small rig with me. I have never used pedals successfully and after a time just gave up and went back to straight in and away you go. The sound is in the bass and how you play it that determines your sound.
What style of playing are you into these days?
‘Doggy in the window’ dude! —whatever is required. It’s funny how the cycle goes around. I’m hearing so many cats playing with a pick again (I’m a closet pick player myself) and it sounds great for today’s style of music. There is one style I am really not into …….slap bass!! I find it a very obnoxious way of playing, the bass player is dictating to the rest of the band ‘here’s the up beat and the down beat as well’. Larry Graham kicked it off playing in church with just organ and bass and no drummer, so he had to play the down beat and the up beat all at the same time….that’s where it should have stayed. I’ve been asked to play some slap tracks over the years but really don’t enjoy the style at all. I’m an old rocker and an old school ‘four’ player really, and prefer to be labelled as that.
Who are your all time best bass players?
In the jazz upright area three or four players are land marks for me. Ray Brown, to start with, was a wonderful swinging player and set the bar pretty high for all the rest to follow. The next two were closely connected as the one followed the other due to a car crash tragedy. Scott Lafaro was to upright what Jaco was to electric bass. He turned the whole thing around and sadly died way before most people realized what he was up to. The guy that followed him in the Bill Evans trio was a continuation of Lafaro. Eddie Gomez is a wonderful bass player, to this day still one of my all time favourite players. Today the guy to listen to is Bromberg, his chops are scary. Many great electric players out there but it always seems to come back to Jaco. So many guys are still discovering just how good he was and how far ahead of the game he was. I love Jaco’s playing, style, and sound. It’s all personal I guess, some guys love this player over another. I listen to as many as I can but still take out Jaco CD’s and hear them all in him.
Even though I’m in my sixties I still see myself as a competitive player and believe the age thing is only in your mind. While living in the States I did some community theatre work in Maryland and got to play with some old cats that had been playing in the Basie era and they were still ripping it up. I would really like to ‘retire’ into a four or five piece jazz outfit. I also loved pit work and would like to do some shows again, maybe?!?! I don’t think I will ever want to go back and play three or four nights a week in some sort of club (not that they exist) but the wheel never stops turning and who knows what can happen.
I’m currently band director at a church in Johannesburg and do most of the writing for the band as well and really enjoy it. The playing is not quite ‘jazz’, but enjoyable.
Goals set for the future.
As I’m really involved in teaching these days, one day I would like to write my own bass tutor. Even though there are some brilliant books out there, the guys who write them always seem to focus on one or two areas or styles and leave big gaps for someone who is really looking for the whole picture. As I’ve taught over the years, the more frustrated I have become with teaching from books that just specialise on one or two areas of playing. You have to fill in the gaps based on your own experience, which is maybe a good thing. The only book I would totally recommend is by Di Bartola, called Serious Electric Bass. He really covers most aspects of playing from a theoretical stand point and good scale and mode info. I’m so glad there is a large segment of young players coming up in South Africa who are college grads.
I would also love to see music being given a higher profile in South African schools as opposed to sports dominating everything that is extra curriculum. One thing I learnt in the States was the value of proper music education, if you are planning to be a “professional” musician, please educate yourself!
Your opinion on local players today, and back then?
Let’s start with back then, there were some really good solid players working the scene in those days, guys like Nippy Cripwell, Les Goode, George Wolfardt, and Charlie Johnston, all
doing what was needed to survive. The one player that stood out then (in my opinion) was John Boshoff! Still to this day, John was and is the best bass player to come out of SA. He was playing Jaco riffs ten years before Jaco came on the scene. Today there are some really good players around. Denny Lalouette is a great player, and there are a whole slew of young guys coming out of colleges that are going to turn this place upside down. I’m glad to see so many young players taking bass so seriously, and feel sorry for a lot of them that they don’t have the opportunity to do the type of reading gigs that were available back then. I would love to see young players concentrating more on reading and then educate the new generation, ‘arrangers’ to start writing proper parts again. (Ok I’m old)’.
What do think of music today?
“It don’t mean a thing if it ain’t got that swing” Armstrong said it then, and it still applies today. I’m sure I’ll be torn apart for this, but in my opinion the best music has already been written. I don’t hear great melodies anymore; it all seems to be written with the ‘video’ in mind. I don’t hear great bass lines; usually synth bass is the choice. Music always goes in cycles—hope I’m still around when the next good playing cycle comes around! All I pray for is that Rap music disappears soon………..come back Count Basie, all is forgiven!
As a teacher, what advice would you give a young player today?
The difference between those days and now is simply the amount of places one can go to and get the education you need. I still believe that bass playing is a wonderful way to make a living (I’m sure many would disagree). I have been at it for over fifty years and still love my job. If you were going into playing professionally you have to get a college degree in music!
You may want to teach or whatever, and a degree is vital in today’s world. I would also study sound engineering (Pro Tools or whatever) just to give yourself another arrow in the quiver.
It’s a tough profession, but if God gave you the talent and desire to play professionally, do it dude!
Of all the different genres you played over the years, which do you prefer the most?
That’s a hard call. I guess there would be two that I prefer out of all of them. Pit work the first, I just love the fact that you don’t have to have an audience gaping at you, just your chart in front of you and the conductor. It’s a real test of your musical skill to go in and play the chart exactly the same every night. A lot of players don’t like it as they say it takes away your creative side. I just love to be perfectly accurate with my playing. Secondly, a small jazz outfit playing standards. For me, it does not get any better than that. In my time, I loved studio work and spent many years at it. But when my time was up, I really did not miss it at all.
Fifty years seemed to have gone by so quickly, but even though there have been some rough patches and time spent wondering why the heck I chose to do music as a profession.
But I’d do it all again, any day. Thank you Lord for my talent.
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Danielle Nicole writes and sings the Blues. She does an amazing job at delivering both exquisite smoky vocals but plays just the right bass line to drive the tune home. Danielle recently released “The Love You Bleed” last January and will be touring the album this upcoming year.
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Bergantino Welcomes Karina Rykman to Their Family of Artists
Interview with Karina Rykman…
Karina Rykman…The high-energy bassist discusses her path on bass, her upcoming tour, how she came to find Bergantino through another Bergantino artist, and more!
A lifelong Manhattanite diehard New Yorker, Bergantino welcomes new Artist Karina Rykman. Jim and Holly had the privilege of meeting Karina and her band in Boston to see her perform. She lights up a stage with her charismatic passion as a bass player and singer – a true powerhouse of joy and energy. On stage, she smiles from ear to ear, hopping, jumping, and dancing; the entire room overflowing with positivity! If you don’t know this titan of bass yet, you will soon enough. Karina’s JOYRIDE 2024 tour picks up this month with the debut of her new album. We had the opportunity to ask Karina some questions about her career so far.
You have quite the career that began at a very young age. You have so much going on!! Can you share some of your musical path highlights you are most proud of?
Oh man, thank you! What a long, strange trip it’s been. I’m proud of still being so absolutely enthralled by music after playing in a million bands and finally ending up at this current juncture: being able to make my own music and tour under my own name. It just seems completely surreal – every gig, every recording…I’m on cloud 9 being able to continue to do this, and we’re just getting started. I’m extremely proud of being so young and being able to learn so much from Marco Benevento, without whom I’d be absolutely nowhere. Being put up to a large task with enormous shoes to fill, and stepping in even though I barely knew what I was doing at the time. Every gig with Marco is extremely special to me.
Tell us about your new album release Joyride and your 2024 tour.
Joyride is my debut record! It came out in August 2023, and we’ve been touring behind it nonstop ever since. You only make your first record once, and I’m so proud of this one – it’s fun, searing, lush, with chantable choruses and, of course, incredibly thick bass and infectious grooves. It was produced by Phish’s Trey Anastasio, who also contributes guitar parts to 5 of the 9 tunes.
What makes the bass so special to you particularly, and how did you gravitate towards it?
There’s nothing quite like feeling the subs rumbling under your feet in a venue and being responsible for those sounds is thrilling. I played guitar first, at age 12, but essentially completely switched over to bass when I was 22 and got the gig playing bass with Marco Benevento. I haven’t looked back since, except for a few gigs on guitar here and there (notably in the house band on Late Night with Seth Meyers and on The Today Show backing up Julia Michaels).
People hate this question, but: If you were constructing your personal Bass Mt. Rushmore, who are the four players that would make the cut and why?
Geddy Lee, Cliff Burton, Bootsy Collins, Les Claypool. The list goes on and on, of course, but those four have imprinted their unique styles upon my brain since I was so young, and I’m perpetually learning from them – even in the case of the deceased Cliff (RIP), going back and watching Cliff ‘Em All videos is something I do all the time. Endlessly compelled by these four players and their original takes on the instrument.
How did you learn to play?
I never took lessons, but in middle school and high school, I just surrounded myself with equally music-obsessed people. All we did was play music and go and see live music, which is wildly accessible when you grow up in New York City. I had a really tight-knit crew of amazing players as my friends, and everyone would teach each other riffs and licks. I was fearless – playing with people much better than me and saying “yes” to every cool opportunity that came my way. I essentially learned from playing in a million bands and playing along to Black Sabbath and Led Zeppelin records.
Are there any other instruments you play?
I started on guitar, and still love to write on guitar. I can get around on keyboards a bit, but you’d never hire me as a keyboardist. The same goes for drums – I LOVE playing drums but you’d never hire me as a drummer.
Describe your playing style(s), tone, strengths and/or areas that can be improved on the bass.
I play both with a pick and my fingers, depending on the specific needs of / vibe of the tune. I love playing fuzz bass and writing bombastic “lead bass” moments, which are a staple of my live show. I’d say I’m about the least “traditional” bassist in just about every way – which is both a strength and a weakness depending on how you frame it. I play what I hear, what I like, and I adhere to very few rules. I’ve always hated rules, and I didn’t start playing rock n roll to follow them.
How did you find Bergantino Audio Systems?
I’m pals with Mike Gordon, bassist of Phish, and his tech is named Ed Grasmeyer. Ed suggested he bring Mike’s Bergantino for me to try out at a show I was playing in Vermont, and I fell instantly in love.
You have been using the Bergantino Forté HP2 head. How have you been setting the controls on this and what changes to those settings might you make as you plug into your other individual instruments?
I love my Forté HP2! The versatility and headroom are incredible, and I’ve been having a lot of fun dialing it in at home. The real fun will begin this weekend when I take it out for 2.5 weeks of tour – dialing something in an apartment just isn’t the same as on a big stage with a PA and subs and all that good stuff. I like to roll my highs a bit and I keep “punch” on all the time. So far, it’s been a dream.
You are the inspiration behind Bergantino cab the new NXT410-C. Can you tell us more about this cab and your experience so far?
Firstly, I’m beyond touched to be the inspiration behind, well…anything! But this is truly insane, and such an honor. I love this cab. Not only is it light and extremely good-looking, it can handle all my loudest, most abrasive and obnoxious effects. My old amp didn’t come close, and could just fart out or I’d have to turn down to appease it. I’m a big fan of playing at earth-shattering volumes, so this is going to be a match made in heaven.
We all love your custom-made Goldie Hawn bass guitar! Can you share more with us about this bass design and why it is so special to you?
Thanks! That’s made by “Zeke Guitars” – it’s the second custom bass he’s made for me! He reached out in the summer of 2019 and asked what my dream bass would be, and I said it was basically my 1978 Fender P-Bass, but lighter, whiter, with Lindy Fralins, gold hardware, and shorter scale. And, well..he did exactly that! I love that bass so much. And the gold, which is referred to as Goldie Hawn, was born in December of 2022, and has the same specs. I just love it, it sounds amazing and looks, arguably, even better.
Jim and I were lucky to get to meet you in person when you came to Boston with the band. The members of the band are such a great group of people! Can you share more with all about the band and crew.
I’m so lucky to keep such incredible company. My bandmates, Adam November and Chris Corsico, are not only unbelievable musicians but also incredible humans. We just laugh and laugh, and we’re there for each other when the road gets tough or we’re exhausted or whatever life throws at us. It’s the joy of my life to get to tour the world with these guys. And the crew! That night was Connor Milton on sound and Nick Koski on lights – we have a rotating cast of people who play those roles based on availability, and everyone who works for us are absolute consummate professionals and the sweetest humans. They are my team of experts and I just adore them so much. Shout out to Zach Rosenberg, Jeff Volckhausen, Dylan Hinds, Dom Chang, for being the best rotating crew a gal could ask for!
What else do you do besides music?
Not much! I love going to the beach! I love eating dinner!
Because I am a foodie, I always ask people what their favorite food is!
Oysters, caviar, sushi. I’m a raw bar fanatic.
At a very young age, Karina is a diligent hard worker. She juggles many balls managing her business and is savvy beyond her years. We are very happy to be working with Karina and are excited for her continued success!
Follow Karina Rykman:
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Facebook @karinarykman/
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